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Tacloban

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"Iwo, July 1944"
05-01-04, 05:02 PM (GMT)
Finally got around to reading Saburo Sakai's book, "Samurai", over the holiday. He brings up a number of interesting points, one of which is that the Iwo defences were obliterated by the navy air and surface bombardments in June and July of '44. He claims the island was defenseless for some months afterwards (he was there at that time). I know the Allies were a bit busy with New Guinea and the Marianas. However, it's an intriguing thought to me that if US intel could have picked up on that, then a small contingent of Marines from Saipan (or even one army airborne battalion) with an air group could have held the island as early as the summer of '44. The IJN fleet would have come out to defend for sure and we could have met it with the 5th Fleet already deployed in the Marianas.

The only question would be the strong Japanese air groups remaining on Formosa and the home islands. It would have stretched the USN to its limits (already worn from Forager), but it would have been worth the struggle to make that leap to shorten the war.

Or would that have been "a bridge too far"?

What I call Bourbon Contemplation.

Tacloban

Tacloban
 

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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Iwo, July 1944 Anlushac11 05-01-04 1
     RE: Iwo, July 1944 Tacloban 06-01-04 2
         RE: Iwo, July 1944 Necrobaron 06-01-04 3
             RE: Iwo, July 1944 dpyers 10-01-04 4

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Anlushac11

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1. "RE: Iwo, July 1944"
05-01-04, 09:32 PM (GMT)
In response to message #0
 
LAST EDITED ON 05-01-04 AT 09:34 PM (GMT)
 
Like the old saying say "Hindsight is 20/20"

Means that its easy to go back now and say why didnt we do this. But my guess if they had known the island was defenseless, and if they had thought they could successfully invade it, and if they they thought they could hold it in what to me would be deep in enemy territory, they would have.

Its one thing to get their. its another to assault it, and it is entirely another to keep it supplied and supported. IIRC while we were winning air superiority was still being contested. I would have considered that a bit overstretched.

Besides wasnt Leyte Gulf and Marianas Turkey Shoot still to take place? that means the Allies would have known Japan still possesed a strike force capable of hitting a small invasion fleet sent to take Iwo. Not sure on dates but didnt Leyte invasion start October 6th?


We are Rangers. We walk in the dark places no one will enter. We do not break away from combat. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We do not retreat whatever the reason. We live for the one. We die for the one.


 

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Tacloban

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2. "RE: Iwo, July 1944"
06-01-04, 00:14 AM (GMT)
In response to message #1
 
You're probably right.

The turkey shoot took place 6/19/44, with a few IJN carriers being scratched on the 20th. The IJN carrier air power was wiped out, but the USN didn't realize it completely (therefore, "Bull's Run". But that was mute because the Japanese had plenty of land-based air power within easy reach of Iwo. Moreover, 5th Fleet would have ben deployed since early June, a little tired but still looking for a fight given the dissappointment after June 20th. It would have been a naval/air brawl, and the USN had been acting fairly conservatively up to that point (why not!). But I don't think Japan could have launched a counter landing with our fleet around (and they knew it). OTOH, the USN would not to be taking a big perceived gamble to land a small Marine unit there (intel was not THAT good).

Thanks for playing along,

Tacloban


 

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Necrobaron


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3. "RE: Iwo, July 1944"
06-01-04, 07:51 AM (GMT)
In response to message #2
 
That's certainly interesting to think about. I have a dear friend who participated in the Marine invasion of Iwo Jima and to this day he's bitter about the slaughter that happened there and has a deep hatred for Japs and Asians in general. He might've been different if Tacloban's scenario had occured.


 

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dpyers


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4. "RE: Iwo, July 1944"
10-01-04, 06:07 AM (GMT)
In response to message #3
 
It wasn't until late 1944 that much of the effective strength of the Japanese fleet was wasted in the Philippines Campaigns. Part of the Allies plan was to provide air coverage, reduce enemy air strength, secure their line of supply, and develop forward naval support bases as they moved north. The Philippines ate up a tremendous number of Japanese aircraft.

Take Iwo and Oki to early, and you've got a lot of troops and ships hanging out at the end of a very long line with effective and still mobile enemy forces behind you. Wars are won by logistics particulary wars in the pacific where distance rules.

The only reason to take Iwo was to provide a forward air base, but that airbase had to be within suporting range of other airbases. The Fleet was not equipped or expected to hang around an island and serve as a target until territory for the supporting bases could be captured.

If you ever look at a timeline of MacArthurs move from New Guinea to Okinawa, the thing that is most striking is how close apart the invasions are. The guy just clipped up the islands with an invasion every 2-4 weeks or so. All the time, bringing his force with him to take and hold.
dp
Gratuitous Latin Sig: Nolite te Bastardes Carborundorum


 

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